By Dov Kornits
See-Saw Films is a co-venture between English producer Iain Canning and Australian Emile Sherman, and we spoke to the latter on the eve of the film’s Australian release.
In terms of how you originate content, do you and Iain [Canning] sit down regularly to talk content? How does this story pop above others, and then go on to be made?
We have a head of development based in the UK, Katherine Bridle, who covers See-Saw generally; there’s Iain and I, and Rachel Gardner who joined a couple of years ago to produce Australian projects. It’s an organic process, we’re submitted a huge number of projects, we go out and find a lot of projects, we come up with ideas ourselves, directors approach us, it’s one of those things where something will jump out that’s worthy of discussion, and we’ll all talk about it. Iain and I talk most days, he’s talking to Katherine, and Rachel and I talk all the time, there’s endless discussion. But it’s not a scientific process, it’s about that moment where you go, ‘this feels like it’s poked its head above the rest’. And also there’s a lot of projects we come across that are great stories, but they’re just not right for us. We have a certain focus at See-Saw, we try to tell stories that are quality cross-over stories, that are hopefully going to cross-over to a bigger audience, but they’re quality films at heart, some are bigger, some are smaller, but we’re also quite director focused, and we try to work on films that have real emotional content, that have something to say about the world today, that resonate. So we come across a lot of stories where we’re like, ‘oh, that’s a great story, but it doesn’t feel like it’s something we want to work on for four years.’
Lion didn’t get mentioned at the BAFTA Awards, which I was surprised about. Is the film an entirely Australian production and how do you distinguish it that way? Is it primarily about financing?
Yes, it is Australian. It is a little bit confusing, and I think you have to be clear about what you mean, like, what’s the country of origin, where are the producers based, where is the director based, does it qualify under the Australian Content tests for Screen Australia, is it a co-production? There are lots of questions that overlap. The King’s Speech was English, in the sense that it didn’t qualify legally as an Australian production, but it’s still an Australian production company, and an Australian character in Lionel Logue, but then you get another film like Hacksaw Ridge, which has no Australian characters, but was shot here, and was an Australian production, so I think it is important to be really clear about what you actually mean, when you say that it’s an Australian film, or it’s English. In the case of Lion, it’s an Australian production, and in the way that most people talk about these things, it’s an actual legal qualification. So Lion is a legal Australian production under the Screen Australia Significant Australian Content guidelines. So it’s structured financially as an Australian production, but it’s also a bit English, you have Dev Patel, and our production company is English based as well.
But would you say it is done for financing advantage, when it comes to production, to classify it as being produced by a particular country?
Well, if you’re an Australian production, you get the Producer’s Offset from Screen Australia, which is the reason you try to qualify. For Macbeth, an English production, we were able to get English tax breaks.
So it’s a decision you make in terms of the logistics of getting it done.
Yeah, getting it made, where to shoot it, where to get tax credits, and what’s the best way to structure it.
How hard is it to get a film like Lion made? See-Saw has been working in TV, and I understand that the pathway for TV is a lot easier today than mid-range feature films.
Well, I think both are really difficult, there’s huge competition in both, and TV is certainly no easy pathway. They’re different. With television, at the end of the day you’re working for a broadcaster, they call the shots, and so in television a lot of projects end up being developed by broadcasters, which then just sit there and never end up being commissioned. Whereas in film, we tend to divide the rights up, and take the independent film model, and go and develop a script, and then sell it, and we have a lot more control over our own destiny, so there are pros and cons to both structures, and it’s nice to be working in both mediums, where really great stories are told. That’s what we’re interested in, really great stories that resonate today, and television’s obviously a format that does that, and so is film. Having built up a reputation in film over many years, we’ve found that we’re in a really great position to convert stories that we really love into films, so, and to attach great cast, and great directors, and in a paradoxical way, with a lot of top talent moving to television, there’s a lot of opportunity for good films to shine and get made.
But to use an obvious analogy, is the current climate a bit like a see-saw, or is it still okay for you because you have a particular reputation?
It’s been really good for us. I think that the trick now is that if you’re going to make a film, it has to pop in a way that previously you could rely on the drama. Now, the idea, the story, the hook, the cast, director, it has to be at a certain level, where the audience has to say, I’m not going to stay at home and watch one of a hundred amazing dramas on television, I’m going to go to the cinema because this story sounds like a must watch film. Previously the cinema was where you went to see your really good piece of drama. Now that’s on television, so film is – you do need a story and a package that is must see, and we thought Lion had that quality.
How do you think the boom in streaming has affected the kinds of projects that are being made?
With Netflix and Amazon coming into the film space it’s been fantastic for the film industry in that there is a platform. The level you have to get over for something to be a theatrical film has gone higher and higher, and it also means that for films, Netflix and Amazon have become a home for really great drama, maybe the ones that are not quite must see theatrical propositions. I think it’s a really great time for cinema if you’re making things that pop, must-see cinema, must-see stories, rather than smaller dramas that people now just stay home and watch on television. Which makes it tricky for Australian cinema because I think the older model of small, director driven stories, and small, director driven dramas, it’s more difficult for those films to find audiences at the cinema. You have to be more inventive now. But still, I think those films can be big calling cards for the director, and casts, and they still serve a purpose.
Lion is in cinemas now.