by Anthony Frajman
How documentary filmmakers can use archive to their advantage.
With over 300 film credits to her name, Canadian Elizabeth Klinck is one of the most respected archival producers in the industry.
A music clearance specialist as well as a producer and researcher, projects Klinck has worked on include Eat that Question: Frank Zappa in his Own Words, Werner Herzog: Radical Dreamer and Ted Allan: Minstrel Boy of the 20th Century, to name a few.
Documentaries Klinck has consulted on have received Oscar, BAFTA nominations, and many other accolades.
Ahead of her talks at AIDC, Klinck shared tips from her years of filmmaking expertise.
How has archive documentary filmmaking changed in the last year, with AI and other developments?
“Well, there’s been a lot of change. We’re a lot more aware of the fact that there’s material that’s been manipulated and changed with AI, and one of the two sessions that I’m on at AIDC will address that topic.
“Over the last year and a half, I’ve been working with an association founded in the United States about best practices and what are good guidelines for working with generative AI. That’s something that I think will be very interesting. And that’s the second panel that I’m on. In terms of general practices beyond artificial intelligence, there’s just a lot more international production.
“There’s a lot more streamers, who are looking at co-productions between lots of different countries. We’ve always done quite a bit of that in Canada. Like Australia, we have a lot of treaties with different countries. But now, we’re seeing even more of that. So, it means you have to be rigorous about making sure all your material is well classified and well logged, because you may be working with three or four other researchers on one project.”
AI has been around for a while, but it seems like its role has changed even more rapidly in recent years. How is it impacting documentary?
“I always like to say it’s the good, the bad, and the ugly. The good is that it has made searching for material a lot easier. All the metadata that’s embedded in a clip that we search for now, we can find that so much more readily. And then, in terms of the actual lab work, if you find something that’s degraded VHS from the 1970s, now, it can be improved in a wonderful way. So, there’s a lot of positive things about AI. But then the other thing, of course, is making sure that it retains its veracity and its integrity and that it really is reflective. There are a lot of court cases of that we see all the time where people have modelled voices and then used them as a line of narration in the voice of someone who may be dead.”
What are some of the key ethical issues surrounding AI that filmmakers should be aware of?
“Documentary by its nature is not fiction. It’s factual. In many cases, the archives are just like rushes. If you think about it, I’ve worked on many projects that are a hundred percent archive. And so, instead of sending a cinematographer out to grab your material, we’re bringing in that material. So, the need for us, I think, is going to increase. You talked about what happened in the last year. I think going forward, a big part of our job will be determining the authenticity and the veracity of the material. And, that may preclude us from having the time and the money to go and find undiscovered caches of material, which is my favourite part of my job, finding those never-before-seen gems.
“And, if something can be made relatively easily and cheaply, then producers may think, ‘well, we don’t need to hire that person to go and and really dig out some of those things’.
“I can see where there will be a temptation to not do that kind of work in the future and for people to rely on AI.
“The other thing that we all worry about is something could be well acknowledged and labelled and documented as AI in a production, but, 20 years from now when someone is just grabbing something off whatever the new distribution system will be, that generation’s YouTube or whatever, that kind of labelling may have gotten lost, and then it’ll just go into the pan of material from that historical period without any identification or any note that it has been changed.
“I think that’s the big worry, because now when we go back to primary sources and go to collections and places like the Library of Congress and the National Archives of France or whatever, we’re guaranteed that to the best of their ability, those materials are identified and authenticated. We may not have those same guarantees going forward if there isn’t a way to really search carefully and make sure that they stand up to the rigours of that material.
“I think documentary does try to embody truth and I know that there are times when that is challenged, but that’s our mantra, and what we want to try to provide for people as archive producers is material that is authentic and that hasn’t been doctored with, hasn’t been tampered with, edited or whatever.
“So, where you can sample a person’s voice or model a person’s voice, perhaps, instead of being read by an actor as we used to do it, it could be generated using their real voice. And so, my worry is that, again, in the future, that people are going to think, ‘oh, that recording actually happened’, when in fact it’s a manufactured recording taken from a letter or from a diary. That’s something that I think people have to be aware of.”
How has the role of archival producer changed in the last few years?
“Well, I think it’s become very important for people doing the job that I do to be up to speed on all these new developments. I’m constantly reading about court cases involving copyright.
“We’re also doing a handout, and I’ll be sharing this with everybody at AIDC on how to best work with an archival producer, because sometimes people would have someone in their office doing it. Sometimes, it was just sort of something the PA would do. And so, what we’re trying to establish is a certain professionalism about what we do. I think that’s important as well, that you know how to best work with an archive producer to make sure that you’re not going to run into any issues where what’s been generated by AI is not really going to be true about what you’re trying to show.
“I think it’s important that we keep working on that, because there’s new people coming into the business all the time, and we all have to be educated as to the best way to work with material.”
You’ve worked on over 300 films. Are there a few things in in particular that you’ve learned from that incredible experience?
“I learn every time I work on a film. You learn new ways of searching and new ways of discovering material. When social media came online many years ago, people were a little nervous about it, but I saw it as a great opportunity to reach out to people and to find material that maybe I might not even be aware of, because they were posting about it. It was also a way sometimes to get really fast clearances, because sometimes that’s the slowest part of the process. And so, using new developments can sometimes speed up the process.
“It’s also been exciting to see how the demographics of archive film watchers has changed over the past, say, 10 years. Traditionally, 20 years ago, it often skewed as an older demographic. And now, because of the streamers and because of the popularity of documentaries, it’s really exciting for me to see the 30 and under demographic really embracing archive films because it’s very satisfying to see that we have a wide range of people watching films. I think it’s partly because of what’s happening in terms of misinformation and flooding the zone and people really are seeking and wanting things that have truths and integrity.”
Would you say there is more interest for archive documentaries now than ever before?
“Yes. So often, it was kind of seen as something that you put in at the last minute in post, or you needed some, I hate to use the word, ‘wallpaper’ just to fill in some blanks.
“It’s been really exciting to see it brought in at a very early stage in the filmmaking process and to be developed, in the same way that the cinema verite part has been developed. It’s wonderful to see that because the actual job has really become quite entrenched as an actual profession.
“We have awards in Canada, there’s an award in England, the FOCAL International Awards for archive material. It’s wonderful to see it celebrated, but also that so many people are embracing it in terms of viewership, and so it self-fulfills and more films get made.”
What are some of the key challenges for filmmakers working with archive?
“The first challenge is always money. Oftentimes, when you’re working with a researcher who may not have as much experience, you’re going to be shattered and staggered by the costs. I always like to stress that it’s important to go to the original source. And lots of times, there’s material in the public domain that is sold by commercial archives. It’s important to hire someone who can say, ‘hey, you don’t have to spend a thousand dollars for that. You can go and get it for a relatively small amount of money from the National Archives’. There are a lot of commercial archives, public domain materials.
“So, that’s one thing I always like to point out. There’s also a way of working and the more you work with a certain topic, whether it’s climate change or indigenous rights or whatever, you accumulate your own knowledge about a topic.
“That’s a real value. Somebody who’s already worked on two or three films on your topic can really bring a lot to the table. You can sometimes determine the way a film is developed because you’re bringing in something that’s really sensational and it becomes almost a character in its own right. It often can change the way a film is produced, and that’s always exciting to see, rather than if you come in at the end, you don’t have that same opportunity to really help in the direction of a film.
“I always like working organically with the team right from the beginning. Those are very satisfying jobs. For example, when I worked on Sarah Polley’s film Stories We Tell, she brought me in very, very early, and it was a lovely collaboration, and of course, we had to work in extreme secrecy, because of the story and everything, but it really helped and I think it was essential to that storyline to have that kind of material available. There are so many occasions where I’ve said, ‘I think this looks kind of interesting, and I didn’t think I’d find this’. And then, all of a sudden, it becomes really a centrepiece in a film. That’s real nice when that happens.
“I always say in documentary filmmaking, you either have a lot of time or you have a lot of money, and sometimes you don’t have either of those things. But if you have a lot of time, then you can really look at obscure sources. On Frank Zappa in his Own Words, the first time that the family had allowed a film to be made, it was eight years in the making. So, I think I went to 30 countries just because Frank, after being known as a rock and roller, then of course went on to become a modern composer in Europe. It was exciting to find this little stash of great stuff in Sweden and Czechoslovakia and different places like that.”
Do you think the possibilities will continue to grow, with more tools at archivists and filmmakers’ disposal?
“Yeah, I think it will. We’re always faced with the fact that some of the material is in very standard definition. Anything that’s coming along that can take that material and make it sing and make it look beautiful and 4K on a large screen or whatever, that’s wonderful. Those sorts of developments in terms of AI, I applaud, and they’ve really allowed us to grow and use more material. When you get the EDL from the edit suite of all the different clips and everything that’s used, that gets sped up every decade. It used to be very painstaking looking at the edge code numbers and now it’s quite a bit faster.
“Those kinds of developments are welcomed and it always behoves everyone to get up to speed on all of that. The searching has gotten so much easier. I think probably what’s going to be more challenging in the future is making sure you have all the clearances. Because I’m a firm believer in making sure that happens. I also have worked on films that have embraced fair dealing and fair use. You have to be up to speed on how to best work in that regard. But I also like to make sure that people who provide material are credited and you get their permission to use that material. I always have held that up as a pretty strong mantra in my work – that I don’t just smash and grab and take stuff.
“There is a legal implication if someone doesn’t do this job properly. I’ve worked as an expert witness in a couple of court cases, and there are consequences and you read about lawsuits all the time. Often, they’re settled out of court, so you never hear about them, but some of them make it to court. And that’s the other big role that we play is making sure that all the legal necessities are looked after. It’s actually a pretty complicated job. You have to keep an eye on the budget, keep an eye on the legal implications. It has to be editorially correct and creative. I think that makes it interesting because it’s not just one thing. There’s lots of variety.”
Elizabeth Klinck is speaking at ACMI in Melbourne on Monday 3 March and Tuesday 4 March 2025. Details here and here.
