by Bryn Tilly (Director of Dark Nights Film Festival)
The co-writer/director brings the righteous vengeance in Saint Clare.
What drew you to Don Roff’s novel Clare at 16? How did the project come about as your follow-up to Braid (2019) and how did Guinevere Turner come onboard as your collaborator in adapting the novel for the screen?
“Don’s novel fascinated me because I perceived that the driving theme was retribution under the cloak of feminine wrath, which instantly made me think of Old Testament references such as Judith beheading Holofernes and the renaissance painter Artemisia Gentileschi. In Don’s novel though, Clare is very young and enjoys killing like an uncontrollable itch she has to scratch at all costs, leading a double life while attending catholic school. Since I wrote the script with Bella (Thorne) in mind, I had to graduate her character to college, and wanted more depth out of her; I had to answer the question of what would bring a person to commit such unnatural and unethical acts over and over, and the answer came to me by reflecting on how widespread injustice and misogyny leave us feeling like we cannot trust institutions. As Clare says in the film: ‘I am the result of a fallen world’; but the greater story arc then becomes the question of what happens after retribution is served, what is the vigilante left with if they are fighting violence with more violence and do these cycles ever end? In Clare’s words: ‘The blood, it won’t come off,’ metaphorically speaking.
“I leaned into this unnerving world of small-town Catholicism, of well-meaning American suburbia where a nest of violence and corruption is secretly festering, which is to highlight how insidious evil can be. What struck me was the opening quote of the book by Thomas Szasz, a Hungarian psychiatrist: ‘If you talk to God, you are praying; if God talks to you, you have schizophrenia.’ This instantly made me think of Joan of Arc, and since Clare is in catholic school, I felt that this was going to be the character development work I needed to do. Don was extremely gracious and trusting, he told me after seeing Braid, that he knew I was the person to do his novel justice. One more element I appreciated was the balance of darkness and quirky comedic beats; Clare and Bob’s relationship had to shine as endearing, profound, yet goofy all at once, after all she is talking to a ghost sidekick, which to me was always the Virgil to her Dante, guiding her into their own Inferno. I loved adapting his novel, I’m really thankful.
“Turner wrote a draft before I was brought on board, which nailed the brilliant idea of the gender reversal in the play, helping my draft land a much more rewarding plot twist in the end.”
Films that focus on central characters that are unreliable narrators, or plagued by identity disorders are notoriously hard to pull off. What were some of the issues you faced with Turner when writing the script and later when shooting the film?
“Such a great question. Clare is definitely plagued by identity disorders and has several dissociative moments in the film, but if they came through, I think a lot of the groundwork came from my first film Braid, and from the exceptional work my cast did on those characters. I think films can be an exercise in psychology, philosophy and existentialism, treating reality as painfully subjective is something I may just enjoy a lot when writing. Our understanding of the world is slanted by our perception, which is by nature limited by our own individual experiences and knowledge, inevitably leaving my protagonists often feeling alienated, solitary, estranged from reality and at times questioning their own sanity. As far as issues go, I would say time on set wasn’t at our disposal, so that disadvantage made things challenging at times in both production and post, but not at the script stage. Being forced to make cuts on the day, knowing you won’t come back to a location is when you really are tested on your skills, strength of vision and efficiency of decision making. This cast and crew were tested a lot.”
How bound by Roff’s novel were you and Guinevere? Did you seek his approval at any stage? Did you read the earlier drafts from when the movie was in development in 2019, or did you and Guinevere start with no outside influence?
“I love that you are so well prepared on the (lengthy) evolution of this project. Yes, I had read the 2019 draft in 2020 actually, it was very faithful to the book. Unfortunately, at the time I was home in Italy on pandemic exile from the US, since I didn’t have a green card then, so the script got to me, but I physically couldn’t get to it. It was a very miserable time.
“When I was able to return to the States, Turner had written her draft, so I read that one as well, but my main concern was making sure Don felt like his creature was safe in my hands, and like I mentioned earlier, him seeing my first film was what sealed the deal and trust was given completely. I showed him an early draft, he had some notes which I was mindful of when moving to a final draft. It was overall a very smooth and delightful development process from the second I started writing, Don was nothing but supportive.”
How did the casting take place? Did you have specific actors in mind?
“I wrote my draft with Bella in mind, she and I had another film in development which fell apart during the pandemic, so we already had a shorthand. Some of the core cast was attached from previous iterations of the project, but the younger supporting cast was the fruit of a laborious casting process. I am very proud of the work they did with not a lot of screen time, it’s commendable.”
Integrating a dark sense of humour into what is essentially a thriller is a delicate act. Was this something you found easy or difficult as both co-screenwriter and director? How so?
“It was very much embedded in the novel, and I chose to trust it; it paid off when we premiered in London and watched it in a full 800-seat theatre because it was exhilarating, hearing the roaring laughs the film was getting was exciting, and I surprisingly found myself laughing too. In that moment, I understood what cinephiles mean when they say horror and comedy are interlinked, as both get a very visceral reaction out of the audience. And if anything, the genre contrast highlighted both the darker and lighter moments, contributing to the feeling of eeriness and unease, that something so sinister could be going unnoticed, hidden under the surface of mundane levity.
“A lot of the laughs are owed to Joel Michealy, who plays the theatre director, who brilliantly improvised a few times as well. I think it’s a relief that with such harrowing themes, we found moments of respite, but they are not self-serving, because even the lighter sub-plot of the theatre world is connected to the central plot, but it doesn’t become clear till the very end.”
Saint Clare is a more accessible film than Braid, but just as rich in its use of symbolism and metaphor. You love to involve the history of art and religious faith in your films, sometimes obviously, sometimes abstractly. Tell us about the use of art and religion within Saint Clare.
“Gothic art, renaissance paintings and Christian female heroines went into the visual world of Saint Clare: the need to seek visual beauty and symmetry by using one-point perspective shots in the film was specifically saved for holier moments, when she is praying and when she’s in cathedrals, or lit by a divine glow when she is alone in nature; by contrast when she’s on the hunt or when she is piecing things together, the camera becomes a reflection of her neurotic, hectic, manic, almost self-annihilating mind with the use of handheld, specialty lenses and split diopters to enhance the feeling of warped reality and distortion.
“I have always been fascinated by the idea of saints and martyrs and noticed how in art history, the male martyrs are portrayed in a rather spectacular and dramatic way, whilst female martyrdoms are illustrated with a sense of duty, of humility, of accepted necessity, in a way implying that feminine agony is something to be expected and accepted quietly. This Saint Clare isn’t a quiet martyr, she’s rather full of outward rage, but she does know she has to operate in the darkness, unnoticed and alone.
“Pre-Raphaelite paintings went into the composition of the very first shot of the film, where we meet Clare praying in a “Christ on the cross” type of position on her bed, but upside down, referencing the martyrdom of Saint Peter, who was crucified upside down. The Pre-Raphaelites are inspired by Italian art of the 14th and 15th centuries, often featuring red haired heroines surrounded by intricate and colourful nature, which is embroidered on the blanket she lays on.
“Chiaroscuro was used to highlight the ethical dichotomy between good and evil, light and darkness in the protagonist and in the film.
Were there any other films with similar elements, such as lead characters with DID or such like, that you watched before shooting Saint Clare? Were there any specific influences you tapped into, any outlier sources of inspiration, other than the direct source material?
“Dante’s Inferno shaped Clare and Bob’s relationship and the use of supernatural tropes in the film; Italian giallo films, specifically Dario Argento’s work influenced Saint Clare’s mystery-whodunnit part of the film. Most importantly, I believe the manga Deathnote by Tsugumi Ohba laid the philosophical foundations to Clare’s character and the film’s themes – if you know the manga or watched the anime, you will see how Clare is both Light Yagami and his nemesis L at the same time, constantly fighting her own self, the deeper down the gorge of violence and redemption she goes. Lastly, I think Crime and Punishment echoes in the film here and there, along with the references I’ve mentioned ad nauseam of Joan of Arc and Gentileschi.”
Both Braid and Saint Clare feature strong female protagonists embroiled in inner conflict, delusion, confusion, yet driven and inherently powerful. What are these films’ thematic strengths that appeal to you as a cinema storyteller?
“I think the human experience is often exactly that. I think we all sway between feeling terribly powerful and utterly lost at the same time. I think being delusional but painfully aware is a stunning and challenging state to be in, it is the state of mind of the artist, of the visionary, of the spiritual and religious beings.”
If you were offered the opportunity to adapt Clare at 17 would you take it, or are you done with this troubled teenager?
“Let’s see how this one does.”
What other novels, if any, would you love to adapt, and what approach would you bring to it to make it your own?
“I would like to adapt and direct The Girls by Emma Cline, about the young women who had joined the Manson Family in the late ‘60s.”
Lastly, how’s that science fiction project of yours coming along?
“I would rather not talk about projects in development, I’ve found it to be the opposite of auspicious as you can see from the sci-fi I’ve had in development for five years now, which died in the pandemic. I continue to work on it though, it’s been evolving in more mature and fascinating ways, its time will come when things align. Films are like perfect storms when they come together, a lot has to conspire for them to materialise, like this one which was in the works since 2019; this brings me to the desire to end this interview by telling young filmmakers to not give up, imagination is the motor to the universe, as long as there is a dreamer, the dream will live on.”
Saint Clare is screening at the Sydney Underground Film Festival (co-presented by Dark Nights Film Festival) on Friday 13 September and Saturday 14 September at Dendy Cinema, Newtown. More info here
