by James Mottram
What did you know about Ken Loach before you started? Were you a fan; had you seen many of his movies?
Debbie: When I was in high school, I had to read A Kestrel for a Knave in English – which was one of the lessons that I was allowed to be in because I was a bit naughty at school – and it really got me. I watched the film [Kes] with my brothers. My brothers are older and have always loved him because he brought working class people and their stories … and is a bit of a hero to them. And I love film, so I started getting into watching all sorts of films, but particularly Kes, for me, was brilliant. I like his point of view on lots of things, so he’s a bit of a hero to everyone really, and especially in Newcastle when he did I, Daniel Blake. When I answered an advert I thought I might get a little part in the background, I’ll do that.
I joined an extra agency when I was forty. It was on my bucket list to get on the telly and do something fun. And my kids think I’m bonkers and they said, “No mum, you can’t do that”, but I did it anyway. So, this advert came, and I was with my husband and I said “I’m going to have a go at that”; he said, “yeah, yeah that sounds like you; do it. Forty-year old woman, two kids”, and my best friend sent me it at the same time. I had to send a selfie video. I videoed it in my kitchen after doing PE all day because I was doing cover at the time. And then I had to meet him for a drink and that was enough because I went for a drink. I told my mum, my brothers, my sister and that was enough and then it just went on and on and on and then I found out I got the main lead part and I said “Are you mad?” I texted “Are you sure?” And then it just carried on from there.
How was it being in Cannes?
Debbie: Unbelievable. Because when I met Kris [Hitchen, co-star] he said, “Is this everything you’ve ever dreamed of?” And I said, “No. Don’t be daft. Why would I ever think I’m going to be in a film?” The red carpet though… My sofa is kept up by copies of Vogue and I’ve always stayed up late to watch red carpets. I love fashion, clothes… I’m very, very lucky that Victoria Beckham gave me a dress to wear, an Alice Temperley, and I had a lovely message off them, so I’m over the moon.
What was it like actually being on the red carpet with all those photographers?
Debbie: I actually really enjoyed it; I was holding my husband’s hands so tight he said it was like being in childbirth again. It is like a dream for me, it’s like Pretty Woman without the curb crawling.
Was that the same for you, Kris? Was it a dream come true?
Kris: I told somebody yesterday in another interview that my wife used to joke when I first got back into acting years ago, “The only red carpet you’re ever going to go on is the red rug in the bathroom”, and then when we’re at the start of the carpet and my wife was obviously going off and we were getting ready to go… She turned around to me, and she says… “well, I think you stepped up from the red rug in the bathroom.”
You worked with Ken Loach briefly on The Navigators [2001]? Did you step away from acting after that?
Kris: What happened at that time was, I had a friend, Matt, who was a bass guitarist in a tribute band and his girlfriend had kicked him out and he was sleeping on our settee. He told me he had this audition in Sheffield, so I said I’ll take you. When we got there, I was just sitting waiting for him, and Ken popped his head round the door and said, ‘do you want to come in?’ And I ended up going in and then they called me up and I went back, and I went back again. And then an agent got in touch with me and said, ‘Oh, they’ve got you in mind for the lead role in the film’. Because Film4 were producing it, unfortunately how it is in the business, if you haven’t got a profile, sometimes the people with the money won’t put the money on the table because they don’t trust you. Ken takes big risks but at that time, for whatever reason, he couldn’t quite do it the way he wanted to and so it didn’t work out. But he still asked me to come on the day of filming and he said, “we’ll work you into the film somehow” It was a really long day. It was raining. It was up north, it was grey, it was horrible… You end up only seeing my rucksack in the film. The rest of it is on the editing floor. So that was it. That was the first time.
Did you give up acting then?
Kris: My wife had a son who was two at the time and we started getting serious about one another. I had to make the decision on what I did with my life and how it was going to affect them. And so, I decided to put everything that I wanted on the back burner and just focus on doing the right thing, and working, and getting a house and looking after my family, so I did that.
What were the most important things you learned from Ken Loach?
Debbie: Be kind, be respectful, speak to everyone as you want to be spoken to. Compassion. He’s just amazing, he really is just the loveliest man. He knew everyone’s name, he spoke to everybody. He’s just so sharp, isn’t he? He knows exactly what you’re doing when you think he’s not even looking at you. So in between takes, we were having a little bit of a giggle and he kept catching us. He just doesn’t miss a trick.
Kris: The thing is, Ken’s partially sighted. So, what I tried to do was work out which side he couldn’t see me on but no matter which side I went on, he’d still see me. I think the partially sighted thing, he might be kidding me on there, it might be a bit of a trick.
Debbie: His hearing is very good as well.
Kris: Interestingly enough, that’s how he casts his actors and that’s how he works his scenes. He doesn’t use monitors. He sometimes turns away from the action and plays it over in his ear.
Debbie: He likes to hear your voice, it’s your body language, everything like that, your mannerisms.
How did you prepare for acting as a family, including the two kids?
Debbie: When we were doing the auditions, we were brought back to do scenarios with different people, and we had to do them with the kids, and it was just if you gel. Little Katie [Proctor] made me cry first time I met her. And Rhys [Stone], I’m a very maternal person anyway and I work with kids, we just clicked and then it just worked. We went for meals and talked, we just spent some time together and the first thing we did was a photo shoot, and we just looked like a normal regular family and it felt good, didn’t it?
Kris: Yeah. I think the thing is, with Ken’s audition process, Kahleen’s [Crawford] audition process, the casting director… she’s very good at finding people that not only look the same but have the same spirit, the same soul. So, you get that chemistry on camera.
When I went up to Newcastle and they brought Debbie and a couple of other female actors that they were interested in, we just had this connection straight away. She walked in the room, and Ken looked at me and he was gauging my response and when she walked in, there was this little twinkle in the eye, it was like out of a Carry On film or something. And then obviously we got together and then the kids came in. It was the same with the kids. When Rhys came in, we fell in love with them straight away.
Debbie: I really, really wanted Rhys. I’m from a similar background, I work in high schools, I’m a youth worker in a youth club. Katie is just a little star. She’s just wonderful. She had me and [writer] Paul Laverty in tears within 10 minutes. That was it, I was saying at the back: she’s just beautiful. The two redheads – ginger power, girl power.
Kris: Ginger power. We’re on the rise again. They’re going be extinct soon though. No, Katie’s really honest though, she’s got a real honesty about her.
Debbie: She’s also a top gymnast, she’s just got so many different talents and Rhys as well, he makes music, they’re just cool kids. I can’t wait to see what happens with them. And we’re all going to be part of each others’ lives forever.
Kris: We want the best for them, like real parents.
Debbie: We are like brother and sister which sounds weird because we’re husband and wife in the film.
Kris: Depends where you’re from.
Debbie: We have that banter and we take the mickey out of each other.
Kris: I think they call it incest, don’t they?
What do you think about your son’s behaviour in the film when he does start acting out, the graffiti? He does come from a loving family, obviously they are under a lot of strain, but it’s not like you were bad parents?
Debbie: We’re not bad parents but this is a reality for a lot of families. They’re not around, he’s on his own, he’s a kid. It’s not all down to them, they’re kids, they need nurturing, their self-esteem… If there’s nobody around, who do they go to? Their friends. Who do they speak to? Who do they trust, they trust their friends? So, if the friends are getting up to no good, who’s he going to go with? He’s going to sit at home waiting for his mum to come in at 10 o’clock, his dad’s away, we are probably tired. We are asleep. It’s a reality for lots of families. It’s not bad parenting. It’s because they can’t be there. And unfortunately for some kids they do fall off the rails. But we’re seeing that in this family and in lots of families, if the foundation’s strong in the heart of the family, you’ll be alright.
Kris: I think the thing is, with most kids that are growing up in any country, they’re a product of their environment. Whatever is going on around them, they kind of mimic and replicate because they think that’s the way you should be and that’s how you are. And kids in certain areas, they see people flashing the cash and they’ve got big cars and stuff because they’re doing the wrong things. They’re out there selling drugs, they’re out mugging people, out there committing knife crime. So, they look at these other guys and they respect them as a role model, and they want to be like them because the truth is probably their own parents who should be their role models are at work all the time. Or have drink problems because whatever’s going on, or mental problems because they are being battered and pushed down all the time by the environment that they are in, things like austerity measures, by all the factors that are in the film.
Debbie: They are exhausted, Abbie and Ricky are physically, mentally exhausted because they are just on a spiral. I’m a parent and I’ve had terrible stressful times with work and stuff and it’s hard. It’s really, really hard and I think it’ll speak to a lot of parents no matter what their financial background because it’s damn hard to be a mum and a dad. And keep everything together and work. And trying to keep a relationship as well.
Do you think it’s an accurate portrayal of Britain as it is now?
Debbie: Absolutely. Absolutely.
People on the breadline basically barely surviving hand to mouth?
Debbie: If you think in terms of people that live in poverty, three out of four children that are living in poverty, their parents are working. Zero hour contracts like Abbie’s job in the film, she’s getting barely less than minimum wage. She doesn’t get paid for travel. She’s working from half seven in the morning until nine at night. She doesn’t get a break.
I did my research. I went to work in a care home that’s near where I live, Melrose House in Cullercoats and they were fantastic and I went and met the residents that live there. I spoke to the ladies that work there and the manager was kind enough to send me on training with a whole group of care workers and I spoke to all of them. They’re angels, it’s a vocation. It’s not business, it’s a vocation, they’re nurses that go out, they care. And once you put business on care, Education, NHS, once you make it like a business, it loses what it is. It’s wrong.
Kris: My wife was a care worker. My wife was Abbie for a great deal of time; and then eventually she got work with the NHS. She now works with the NHS as a nurse in the treatment centres. So for me, I already knew all the stuff that Abbie does in the film because I’ve seen first… that I’ll be put on people, they reduce your hours and they have you there all the time, because they know that they can, because they know that you’re soft, they know that you’re kind, they just take a liberty, don’t they?
Sorry We Missed You is in cinemas December 26, 2019
